10/4/2007
Oak Lawn, Illinois bans Christmas
After a muslim woman complained.
Sep 28, 2007 Oak Lawn Schools May Cancel Holiday Traditions School District To Discuss Possible Cancellation Or Renaming Of Holiday Celebrations
(CBS) OAK LAWN, Ill. A southwest suburban school district has taken action, responding to the concerns of a parent who is Arabic.
But now, as CBS 2’s Suzanne Le Mignot reports, other parents are angry that traditional school holidays will be renamed or even eliminated.
“That does not represent all the Muslims, all of the Arabs at that school,” said Qais Nofel, the father of a student in Ridgeland School District 122.
There was some heated discussion between parents outside Columbus Manor Elementary School in Oak Lawn on Friday. The thought of no more traditional holiday celebrations has many parents really upset.
I should say so; my kids had “Christmas sings” at school and sang traditional Christmas carols.
Update: This is a misreported misunderstanding. The schoolboard misunderstood the request. She requested that “Ramadan” be added to the holidays, not for Christmas and Halloween be no longer observed. The school board reversed and revised the decision.
The debate, which has raged in the community for weeks, was sparked by a parent, Elizabeth Zahdan, who asked that stars and moons be displayed in schools in honor of Ramadan. She was denied and told that schools couldn’t partake in religious celebrations.
“I want everyone to be equally acknowledged. I never demanded that no one can celebrate. I never said take Christmas away,” Zahdan said at the meeting.
Oak Lawn School News Stirs Up the Nation | Oak Lawn IL Real Estate News linked with Oak Lawn School News Stirs Up the Nation | Oak Lawn IL Real Estate News
October 4th, 2007 at 9:40 am
I recently heard of this and am outraged! This county is becoming entirely too P.C. There are other ways to deal with this issue besides “banning” Christmas. This is a disgrace! People need to take a stand.
October 4th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Yeah, Illinois is full of politically correct idiots…I’m thinking I need to move.
October 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
I would’ve told the ***** — TOUGH $HIT — your ugly a$$ is in MY COUNTRY … you don’t like it?
**** YOU — pack your smelly a$$ ad go back to your country where you have no rights or freedoms!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:18 am
lol…they sure seem to get ‘insulted’ a lot; even when they’re living in the infidel’s country they think they should be treated differently and better than everyone else.
They are also the reason that some schools are teaching how to wage a ‘jihad’ and read the koran. God forbid that should happen with Christianity, though.
October 5th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Yeah, and where is the stinky, nasty commies at the ACLU when they are “cracking the Koran in the Classroom”???? I don’t know if it is because I am in a deep funk or not, but all I see happening in the future is civil war in this country. I head some dumb cluck defending the store owner in Nevada that flew the Mexican Flag over the American flag! A Viet Nam Vet took the American flag down with a knife and this fool was saying it was “vandalizing” and that this man had a right to show disrespect and go against flag ettiquette!!! I salute the Vet and stand by him! He corrected a wrong and just took the flag away from someone who did not appreciate it. Why must there be so many stupid, commie MF’ers in this country?????
October 5th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
OK… typo, “I HEARD the dumb cluck!!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I was shocked when I heard this. Christmas has been a tradition in America for generations. If people who come to this county do not like the law and tradition of this great country then they need to leave. I live in the City of Chicago and have neighbors that are of the same origin who who are abusing the system by collecting uneployement but working and getting paid cash. What is happening where we have to change our laws in order to make others that are probably not even citizens happy. Where do we draw the line — We need to do something about this.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Ok what’s wrong with this picture. America wake up. Arab radicals are trying to take over. They are coming through our unprotected borders and now terrorizing our schools. We need to stop this now before it spreads. Their forming their terrorist networks now in schools and demanding we change what has been tradition for years. Why doesnot someone put their foot down and just say “take it or Leave”.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
My fammily immigrated to this country 32 years ago and I was born in Chicago. I would not expect this great country that has given my family a oppotunity to change their laws. This is wrong as my daughter goes to a public school and I wish she could learn more about religion. I think people should not let someone come to this country and make demands. who are they, why are they planning something. Should we worry
October 5th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
I am arab and do not think the school should stop celebrating christmas. I am here for a better live and america is a good place. There are those who come here who do good and those that want to make trouble. please dont think all arabs are bad. We want to be here to work and have family. These people who donot like America and christmas should leave america and go home and see how different it is.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
This is crazy and how can the school even allow this Arab family to come into the school and make demands. What does that sould like to you. We need to be very careful of these people who create their little hidden network in schools to create trouble. This is another form of terrorism, they come to the county and make demands and we are stupid enough to listen.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
“Ok what’s wrong with this picture. America wake up. Arab radicals are trying to take over. They are coming through our unprotected borders and now terrorizing our schools. We need to stop this now before it spreads. Their forming their terrorist networks now in schools and demanding we change what has been tradition for years. Why does not someone put their foot down and just say “take it or leave”.
Comment by Joe miller”
It’s very simple Joe — this requires American men and women who have the spine; backbone and balls to step up and take action.
If you and your fellow Americans don’t have what is required to do the job, then you’re one of the silent majority who cowers in a corner waiting for “somebody else” to do the job — get off your a$$ and get your fellow Americans to start DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT — if you and they don’t, I see all of you as nothing more than pansy-a$$ whining crybabies.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
“My fammily immigrated to this country 32 years ago and I was born in Chicago. I would not expect this great country that has given my family a oppotunity to change their laws. This is wrong as my daughter goes to a public school and I wish she could learn more about religion. I think people should not let someone come to this country and make demands. who are they, why are they planning something. Should we worry
Comment by Maria Gomez”
You’ve been here for 32 years, and haven’t figured out by now that Christmas is not about “Religion” — it’s far more than that.
Should you worry about what?
You should worry that you still don’t know that much about America and it’s History — join your daughter in School, as you and her have a helluva lot to learn.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
“I am arab and do not think the school should stop celebrating christmas. I am here for a better live and america is a good place. There are those who come here who do good and those that want to make trouble. please dont think all arabs are bad. We want to be here to work and have family. These people who do not like America and christmas should leave america and go home and see how different it is.
Comment by Ramash Haddad”
Get a clue, Dude — it was YOUR PEOPLE who came here in the first place to cause trouble, by bombing the World Trade Center and killing innocent Americans!
We Natural-born Americans DIDN’T INVITE YOU OVER HERE — yet, you show up, demanding that we automatically accept you; give you jobs; give you houses; etc … GO BACK HOME!
Let me tell you right now … Red-blooded Americans do NOT want you people here — so, why do you not understand that and go back home where you belong?
In America’s eyes, your own people gave us that impression, and you still do.
October 6th, 2007 at 5:14 am
Yat, please tone down the language on both the posts and the comments and don’t lump all muslims into the terrorist group; not all muslims are terrorists, although it seems all terrorists are muslims.
I’m not sure how to respond here, because we’ve been allowing muslims to come here for the last 20 or more years. The terrorists pretend to be our friends, live among us as naturalized foreign-born citizens, while plotting to destroy us.
This is a clash of cultures; there are over 50 Islamic nations in the world today; and they are determined to add ours to their list. The multicultural idea that we can all live together might be totally FALSE.
And if it is, what decisions should we make about it today? Ayaan Hirsi Ali says “we must be more wary about the dangers of importing cultures that clash with the one that has built this free, rich and democratic society.”
I’m going to put up a post about how many muslims immigrate here…I think it’s a fascinating subject.
What should we do about it, though? Should we penalize all muslims for the terrorist actions of the extremists?
I think that’s what Yat is doing by lumping them all into one group; which according to leftists, might be considered bigotry.
But even Hirsi Ayaan Ali recognizes the threat; and she’s a former muslim.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Cao - yeah, you’re right … my comments have been adjusted.
I just get highly pissed of how they’re coming into America by the millions, and DEMANDING that we change our laws and Constitution to suit them — who do they think they are by making such demands?
They never demand anything around me in person, as I’m very verbal and let my loud voice be heard by those around me in a situation like that.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:35 am
No problem, you are a passionate man.
October 6th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
In more ways than one…
October 6th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Hard to believe that a school could or would do this. Christmas(which honors the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ) has been celebrated for centuries. This same Jesus died on Calvary’s Cross for all people! It seems that some just can’t come to terms with that. Don’t let one person cancel that which points to the One who loves us so much!
October 6th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Even thought times are changed from many years ago when different nationalities immigrated to this country with only the clothes on their back and very little money. Back then people cared about America. Now a different people are coming and detroying this great country. We need to stand up an not tale this **** anymore. How many of these people are here illegally or on temporary visas. Washington wake up!!! I the parents need to speak up and say we are not taking this **** anymore either bring christmas back or we are leaving. America is a great country and we rneed to ban together to keep it this way.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
There are many like myself that trace their ancestry back to before we became a country, there are many who trace it back to Ellis Island, and there are many who worked hard to earn citizenship over the years.
I guess my feelings are that if they come here, do it right and legally, contribute to our society, respect us so we can respect them and welcome them and Learn English, I have no problem with them being here and assimilating into our culture.
As far as I’m concerned being a melting pot is what we are, but if anyone comes to this country with the intent to demand “we change who we are”, they don’t belong here. If they come with intent to do our citizens harm (like the 9/11 highjackers), they don’t belong here, and if they don’t like aspects of our culture, we NEED TO SEND THEM PACKING BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.
I was always partial to the slogan adopted by the Nam vets years ago: “America, Love It or Leave It”!
Political Correctness is wishy washy and the weapon used by liberals to tear at the fabric of our society. I prefer old fashioned love of God, Country and Family with some Respect thrown in for good measure. I would send the Arab woman packing back to Arabia! And no one here illegally (and disrespecting our laws in the process) would be staying. Period.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:22 am
I just CANNOT believe WHAT is happening!!!
I literally am in tears, i just cannot believe this,,,I am a born american here, my family thogh comes from Poland,,,& my WHOLE LIFE everyone who ever came to america always came here because wanted something better, & what america stood for, when i was a little girl, i found out that in poland they dont celebrate thanks giving & my family did here, once they came to america they all did the american ways here, celebrating thankgiving which was something that was not done in europe,,, & now many many years later now therye kids us married, thank giving is a big day for us, my parents even call my father who is only one that still has fam in pol. to say happy turky day even though they dont celebrate there, & tells them how great the turkey is better every yr, how family is getting bigger,,,etc,,,SO my point is u come to america & u can choose to accustom to whats has been here 4 yrs what this country was built too,,, not change it,,, there’s rligions i remember going to school on easter that ate meat when i as a catholic couldnt on fridays,,, but noone tryed changing anything,,, I am so DISCUSTED,,, why r we as americans not putting our foot down!…1st it was stopping the american pledge in schools b cause it affended some, when is enough going to be enough,,,then the money thing not to have on there in god we trust,,, when is enough gonna be enough!!!??
It was SO GREAT. americans sticking together, even though it was because of the horrible 9/11 tragedy, but thats when we all stood together, after that happened, here around oak lawn areas, & bridgeview where the mosc is, seemed like EVERY AMERICAN was out, & not even in walmart in bridgeview did u see a arabian, then they were scared of us hiding, they had ploice protecting every singel entry into theyre lil village right behind menards on harlem, where theyre mosc is & a majority live,,, then we stood together, Now its back to us being quiet, & them demanding like i was shocked last yr on 4th of july, we went to my parents with our kids wearing 4th of july tanks, ready to watch fire works, & 2 muslim women with the rags on head walked by, & wearing a shirt w/ theyre flag on it real big,,, that to me especially on 4th of july felt like an insult,, because after the 9/11 none were out 4 a good long time, & there’s alot of them in oak lawn, **** loads, u didnt see one, it was amazing, then 2 yrs later, on 4th of july wearing theyre flag like a slap in the face to america…
I was NEVEr prejudice, but now after seeing so much lately I HATE them…the ones that wear the rags,,,they seem so ignorrant , i dont do anything to them, but i can see they give me looks, because so many by my p’s apartment building on O.L and they BLAST theyre music really loud,, where ever, in cars from theyre apts, houses,,,Now this new thing,,, i just dont trust them, especially since the hijackers acted like a normal family driving neiborhood kids to baseball games then do what they did,,,
October 7th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Well this is amazing. People who call themselves “born Americans”(stel05) can’t even take the time to learn to speak and write the English language in a proper manner. You see, I was born, raised and EDUCATED here in the U.S through the blood, sweat and tears of my hard-working parents who came here from Palestine (which, for those of you who can’t seem to see beyond your nose, is a country in the Middle East). We’ve always followed the rules and tried to see the good in EVERY man. I went to public school and willingly shared in the celebration of Christmas and Halloween and, yes, we had the big turkey feast on Thanksgiving day. To this day I take my own kids to watch the fireworks on the 4th of July. I live near the mosque and I have many neighbors who are Polish and most of them are kind and decent so I will choose not to insult ALL Polish people based on your ignorance, stel05, because that would put me in the same category as you. However, I do advize you to step out of the little hole you have dug for yourself and see the true reality of your surroundings. This country does not belong to you. It belongs to everyone who comes here with the intention of making a better life for themself. That is the foundation on which the U.S was built on. Let me also inform you that one of the main reasons the English IMMIGRATED here in the first place was to break the ties between church and state. That means that public schools(state) should have never really begun celebrating Christmas(church) in the first place. Anyway, the woman who complained to the school district about Christmas NEVER really “complained”, she only suggested that they celebrate Eid(the ONLY Muslim holiday) along with Christmas and Halloween. Yet they decide to ban everything. I guess ignorance prevailed. Let me just say this: If being an American means that I get lumped in with all the people who left those hideous and down-right stupid comments, than I am today ashamed to be an American. Pick up a book, people. Or better yet, pick up the constitution. Maybe you’ll learn a few things.
October 7th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Even the Supreme Court said we’re a Christian nation…and until the 60’s they used the Bible in public schools as a school book. John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
The fact that we’ve moved far away from that doesn’t mean we should forget our judeo-Christian roots and heritage.
People live here in freedom based on the Mosaic law upon which our laws were based.
James Madison, the fourth president and the Father of the Constitution said,
Christianity, unlike Islam, doesn’t force people to convert under a sword; there is no equivalent in Christianity to sharia law.
That’s right, oz, practice what you preach and instead of picking up an NEA-produced schoolbook, look to the historical record.
The founding fathers, in fact, supported the idea of the Bible and biblical truths to be taught in public schools.
Here’s just one quote from John Adams:
Thomas Jefferson…said, “The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart.”
In 1892, the Supreme Court wrote the decision of Church of Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892). The decision cites a number of examples that America was founded on Christian principles, and concludes, “this is a Christian nation.”
The founders of Harvard College, established in 1636, professed that, “All knowledge without Christ was vain.”
Were the founding fathers Christian?
In essence, I’m not going to insult people like you just did for not knowing their history, I’ll merely point it out. Instead of trading insults, let’s just have a friendly discussion, okay?
October 7th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Well, since you so desperately want this to be a conversation about religion, Cao, then can you explain to me why I had to celebrate and learn about Hanukka and Kwanza in PUBLIC school. I made dreidels, Kwanza cards AND Christmas cards, yet I went home and quietly celebrated Eid. This is not a country built on religion, it is a country built on money… whomever has more of it can persuade the government to do what they want. You cannot deny that.
Your comment about Islam and the sword makes me think you’ve forgotten the Crusades. Let’s try and remember the Africans who were forced to convert to Christianity.
Look, throughout the years I have made friends of every ethnicity and religion, but if you are going to point out what you think is the bad in me, then I will do the same. Your blog is full of insults and unproductive comments. You don’t have to say something GOOD, but , honestly people, can you atleast say something that holds some merit.
This land is my land, just as it is yours. I help build it every day by raising children that are strong and decent pillars of society. I teach them that, despite what they see around them, they should ALWAYS live honestly, honorably and without any form of prejudgement or stereotype. My husband helps build this country every day by getting up in the morning and going to work, building the economy and paying his taxes. I donate to Christian and Muslim charities. Yet, for some reason, I feel that you are not going to see beyond the fact that I’m MUSLIM. AHHH..the sweet sound of ignorance.
October 7th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Correction: you brought it up. Since you brought it up, how does that make me desperate?
Nonsensical points you’re making here.
Correction: I think it’s you that’s desperate to insult others in making your point, there’s no need for that. But…since you brought it up, that’s an Islamic trait…thinking people who are not muslim should bow down in dhimmitude.
Do you also support the jizyah?
It’s also very Islamic to point the finger at people being ‘racist’-and Islamophobic - and Islam is not a race - for pointing out the obvious. Seeing the riots all over the world over simple cartoons, the fact that all the hijackers on 9/11 were from the middle east and Islamic, and Bin Laden quotes from the Koran certainly are cogent and coherent reasons to look at all of this with skepticism.
Get a grip, will you.
You went to school after the liberal indoctrination centers began their multicultural brainwashing…much after me.
I won’t deny it; I’m pointing out that’s not where we came from, that’s what we’ve evolved into.
When? Show me the proof, and links please. The Crusades were brought about after centuries of Islamic conquest.
See this two—part article (here and here) for the rules of Islamic warfare. Too often they do not follow simple justice, but were barbaric and cruel, such as permitting sex with newly captured female prisoners of war.
This article goes into more detail on the motives for Islamic expansion and a comparison with Christianity. The second major section discusses the weak Islamic claim on Jerusalem.
This book by Andrew Bostom is the antidote to the false belief that life under Islam was always a bed of roses. Bostom provides many source documents, sometimes translated for the first time. Here are some online samples. This two—part article (here and here) recounts Muslim atrocities in Palestine. This two—part article (here and here) demonstrates that jihad produced the European Crusades.
I’m not pointing out the bad in you, I’m pointing out the fallacies of your arguments. You’re certainly entitlted to your opinion, but I don’t have to agree with it. And I certainly don’t have to allow a guest in my ‘house’ – which is the space that I pay for here – my blog – to behave in this sort of way. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t make me bad, and it doesn’t make you bad.
I’m glad you feel that way, but it’s important to point out the good and bad in Islam….and this doesn’t have a thing to do with the fact that you’re a muslim. This has to do with worldwide terrorism which is a worldwide problem. We don’t have to embrace the worst of the muslim world to prove to people like you that we’re not Islamophobic.
Again, with the invective…about my ignorance. I would suggest you examine your rhetoric and the pointing of fingers first.
Assuming the best, as the left’s multi-culturalist ethos demands, is against reason and rational thinking. Not all choices lead to good outcomes. One must look at the facts, and weigh them before arriving at a conclusion. By avoiding the truth, those who think they are extending a healing embrace to the good people of the Islamic world are instead embracing the worst; and in some cases, even the terrorists. This is wrong and dangerous for everyone.
Truth suppression is the underlying tool of the terrorists’ present ideological domination of the Islamic world. It is, in fact, what Muhammad said; “War is deceit”. Repeatedly the Koran says those who forget the law of Moses (highlighting in particular the Ten Commandments) will burn in Hell forever. There could be no clearer violation of the commandment not to commit murder (in the original Mosaic formulation) than the traditional Islamic death penalties for apostasy and blasphemy. Murder is any killing not in defense of self or others against violent attack, or conspiracy to violent attack.
In mosques all over the country, which are wahhabi-style and Saudi funded, Imams are speaking of jihad and encouraging anti-American violence and encouraging young men to pick up the sword. This is not only frightening, but needs to be addressed.
Those who simply believe and speak differently (apostates and blasphemers) cannot be subject to violence under Mosaic law, but to say so is blasphemy under sharia law. This violent suppression of the truth is the Berlin Wall of Islam that must be torn down, and can be torn down. The truth can and will set us free, if only we use our much-valued freedom to continue to have open debate, to continue to have open discussion, and hopefully unlike what you’re doing here, without flinging insults–get to the bottom of it.
What is happening across the country - getting rid of Christianity while actually putting Islam in the schools and teaching children to wage a jihad is wrong, and to assume that there will be no consequence for this is wrong. To take the request of a muslim woman to get rid of over 100 years of our judeo-Christian heritage in the public schools because she’s offended is shameful and wrong, also. It isn’t against the law to be offended; she needs to realize she doesn’t live in an Islamic country under sharia law.
Your arab-like or should I say Islamic-looking appearance of needing to feel superior over the infidel is showing, my dear.
Also see “How the modern liberal thinks”
October 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
It was never my intention to insult..just to inform. If it truly is YOUR intention to seek only good behavior in you “house”, then why allow all the crude and rash remarks that preceded mine? It seems to me that it is only acceptable to insult people here if they are Arab or Muslim. I never used the word “race”, either. In fact, I did not call anyone racist. I spoke of my own children and what I did not want them to be.
I do understand the origins of my religion. I know the laws of Moses and I have read the Koran. Murder is a horrible thing and I do not know of one religion that condones it. When I saw the towers fall, I sat there and cried. I cried for the mothers and the children. I cried for fathers and the sons. Most of all, however, I cried for what the world is now…this world that I send my children into everyday. I cry today,too, for all those being killed in other parts of the world in the name of freedom and democracy…or oil, no one can tell the difference anymore. They are people,too,you know.
Anyway, I don’t think any one person should bow down to any other person. In fact, that is a sin in the Islamic religion. The only One to bow down to is God…and he is watching us. May he have mercy on us all.
October 7th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I give SSGT Yatahey and others a pass sometimes. I did chastise him in comment #15. I didn’t see a personal attack waged against me by any of the others. When people insult me directly, as you did, with the comments about being ignorant and so forth, I just can’t let that go.
But remember that I am not insulting YOU. I am pointing out the fallacies in your arguments.
It is a sin to bow down to another person in Islam? Where is that written? Why, then, do they force infidels to pay a tax if they’re not muslims? Isn’t that a way to force people into ’submission’ - which is the actual translation of the word “islam”?
October 7th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I love and embrace my religion and will never be ashamed of it. It is sad when verses of the Koran are taken out of context and used against Islam, by both believers and non-believers. We should all take the time to understand each other a little more deeply. We’re all human. We all came from one God.
The Koran: 3:84:
Say: We believe in Allah and what hasbeen revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim(Abraham) and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub(David) and the tribes. And what was given to Musa(Moses) and Isa(Jesus) and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to him do we submit.
Yes, Islam means submission, submission to God.
October 7th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
How did my name get wrapped up in this discussion? I already said what I had to say.
October 7th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Read what she said there…I was saying that she ought to refrain from insults, and she pointed out that other people did. I pointed out that I took you to task for that.
And please, don’t add sentences to my posts; I noticed something that I’m sure I didn’t write on the ’stand with rush’ thing.
And Oz, for some Islamists, according to what I quoted from the Koran, it means submission to Islam; in some cases with our necks under the sword.
October 7th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Islamist and Muslim
are not the same thing.
October 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Could you please explain what the difference is? I thought they were interchangeable terms.
October 7th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
“Islamist” is a recent term coined by the American government to replace “Muslim”, which, unfortunately, is used interchangeably with “terrorist”. A Muslim is someone rightfully follows the religion of Islam.
October 7th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I have read that muslims think Bin Laden is a ‘good devout muslim’. Afghan people who were interviewed after he left Tora Bora, said precisely that. I personally don’t really see a distinction between Islamist and muslim…although I respect your defining the distinction here and will not refer to you in that manner.
Thanks for the explanation.
October 7th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I don’t think she wears a burqa or a headscarf (although I could be mistaken), I don’t think she’s ever lived in an Islamic country, and our society is her only frame of reference. Therefore, she doesn’t know what it’s like not to have the freedom to move around without being beaten by the religious police, or being stoned to death for falling in love with the wrong boy or to be forbidden to go online without an escort.
I’m assuming she’s female because I have shahid …and shahid treats me very differently. It should be noted that the arabic muslims…or Islamists that I’ve run across are rude, insulting and have a need to feel superior, even if they can barely read or write English. Shahid has threatened my life, and if Oz thinks I can let that go very easily, she/he is mistaken. These people use the same arguments that Oz has used here; so I see very little difference between the two except for one thing: Oz has backed off and treated me with respect. Oz has some intelligence and it is showing, and I am thrilled by the conversation.
Here’s an article at Sweetness and Light about Everyday Underreported Brutalizing of Iraqi Women.
It’s easy to say “everyone is paranoid” or “bigoted” when they have no other frame of reference; muslims are fleeing their Islamic countries for the US…while we have what Oz terms as Islamists trying to change the system from within that are terrorist-related like CAIR, etc., I’d like to see moderate muslims come out en masse denouncing terrorist-affiliated organizations and what they’re doing rather than remaining silent…
But would that make them apostates?
October 8th, 2007 at 10:54 am
The geniuses who run the show in Oak Lawn, Illinois, also seem to have forgotten that Christmas is a FEDERAL HOLIDAY!!!! Look at any calendar published in the USA and December 25 will have the word “CHRISTMAS” on it, clear as day. Those who feel “threatened” because a religious holiday that’s not a part of their religion need to step back and take a look and stop bickering over the use of words that might or might not have a religious bent. Our country was founded on the basis of religious freedom, and as a result, a lot of customs in our society have their basis in Christianity. It’s not meant as an insult or that people of differing religious faiths aren’t welcome to practice their beliefs; it’s simply a part of our history, and to most Americans, our current religious belief. The powers that be in Oak Lawn need to wake up and be sensible. This is insane.
October 8th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Well, sorry to dissappoint, but I do wear a scarf(a towel would look kind of ridiculous, don’t you think?). I CHOSE to wear the scarf after I had been married for a number of years and my first two daughters were a little older. I have never felt that it takes anything away from who I am. On the contrary, I believe that it forces people to look beyond my physical appearance and concentrate more on what my brain has to offer. Isn’t that what Americans have been trying to teach their daughters all these years? Turn on the T.V or open a magazine. Here are the women that are being degraded. Here are the images our daughters idolize and strive to be. There is something very, very wrong with that. Yet we sit here and point fingers at other cultures.
I have also gone back home to Palestine and LIVED there for a few years. I’ve never seen a woman beaten, cursed at or demeaned in any way. I have cousins and relatives who live there now, who are female, that go to college, work and lead normal lives. I’ve never even heard of religious police, at least not in Palestine. Also, everyone I know back home owns a computer and a cell, so I’m not sure what this “escort” thing you’re talking about is. The sad part is that the American media plants so much **** into the heads of Americans so that any action taken by this government seems justified and goes forth without much protest from the people.
You see, I know a lot more about my Arab Muslim culture than you think. The question is: Do YOU really know all that much? Or are you just going by what the media and the government have fed you? I think the only way to truly learn about something is to experience it, and I have.
So if you had seen me in the street, with my scarf and 4 children, you would have probably tossed me aside as just another dim-witted Arab girl with no class, culture or intelligence(who sits at home all day waiting for her husband to come home and beat her).
The lesson here folks: let’s look beyond what we THINK we know and try to understand each other a bit. Trust me, it’ll make for a much better world.
October 8th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Sorry, Oz, the way you came across, I thought you were a teenaged kid; you seem very ignorant of some things; particularly the world around you. Now that I’ve reached a certain age, I look at my kids and they STILL don’t seem old enough to drive or go to a bar…and my oldest is over 30.
It’s interesting also that you’re Palestinian. I know of a young Jewish woman, Tali Hatuel who was murdered in cold blood in Gush Katif…and around the time she, her unborn daughter and her four daughters were murdered by Islamists, that part of the Gaza strip was relinquished to the “Palestinians”. Interesting, lol…there is no such thing as “Palestinian people”. I’d like to know what your thoughts are on that. It would seem to me that you’re right; a muslim woman would have little to fear there at this point; unfortunately the dead have tales to tell….
But, thanks for hanging in there through all this, I think people need to open their minds a bit.
I DO have friends that are muslims; Fahim, is an example. Omar and Mohammed are a few more; although I only know them from online….they’ve never treated me like Yasmin Zakaria does; he would be characterized an Islamist.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
[…] His e-mail bothered me so I did a quick search on the subject. I found several blog entries such as this one (note that one of the commenters claims Ramadan is not an actual Muslim holiday). Here’s another blog entry and one more out of many that I could put links to. I’m not taking sides here but I am just showing my amazement at how quickly news travels and how people have now formed opinions on Oak Lawn IL because of this. It is hard to believe how a blip of a news piece about Oak Lawn Illinois could cause such a furor across the country. […]
October 11th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Judging from this pingback (I went to the site and read the whole post) this has been a misunderstanding in Oaklawn, the schoolboard misunderstood the request. She requested that “Ramadan” be added to the holidays, not for Christmas and Halloween be no longer observed. The school board has reversed and revised the decision.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:40 am
I did see that, I’ll have to remind myself to update this later…
December 14th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
It’s a shame that this particular interest group had enough power to keep the grade school kids from having a Halloween party, Christmas acknowledgment, and, did not allow the kids a day off to recognize VETERAN’S DAY! Enjoy the freedom of speech people of all faiths and nationalities died for, and refuse to honor our Veteran’s?